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Post by marchesarosa on Jan 7, 2013 6:51:05 GMT
The graph looks like "evidence" of sea temperature stasis to me since about 1998.
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aubrey
WH Member
Seeker for Truth and Penitence
Posts: 665
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Post by aubrey on Jan 7, 2013 11:18:02 GMT
But quite a rise from 79.
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Post by visitor on Jan 17, 2013 14:05:29 GMT
The graph looks like "evidence" of sea temperature stasis to me since about 1998. That's because that graph shows Sea Surface Temperature only. If one looks at Ocean Heat Content (defined as as the integrated temperature change times the density of seawater, times specific heat capacity from the surface down to the deep ocean) then one sees a very different picture.
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Post by ncsonde on Jan 17, 2013 15:03:06 GMT
And that in a nutshell is why we're still getting Arctic melting, excess storms, and summer droughts, even though the 30+ year warming cycle is now known to have ended. The oceans absorbed a great deal of heat, and it's now dumping it into a cooling atmosphere. Two or three more years and all that deep water excess heat will have dissipated. It's basic thermodynamics.
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Post by ncsonde on Jan 17, 2013 15:04:56 GMT
On the other hand, the idea that the oceans can somehow continue to warm while the atmosphere is getting cooler is not thermodynamics of any sort, it's voodoo.
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Post by visitor on Jan 18, 2013 18:43:47 GMT
So what has caused the increase in Ocean Heat Content (OHC) in the last couple of years? If this OHC had been the cause of the recent Arctic Sea Ice melt, shouldn't we have seen OHC decline (i.e the dissipation you claim we should be seeing)?
Laws of physics and conservation of energy and all that...?
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Post by ncsonde on Jan 22, 2013 7:24:39 GMT
So what has caused the increase in Ocean Heat Content (OHC) in the last couple of years? It's an unsubstantiated claim that there has been any such increase. Virtually impossible to measure such a quantity accurately. We're merely able to dip a toe in a few randomly selected depths, here and there - the rest is extrapolated guesswork, with the delusive assistance of mathematical models that are known to be false. It hasn't. The oscillating cycles of deep ocean currents have ultimately been the cause of recent Arctic ice melt. Actually, no one, even AGW lobbyists, claim any different. Virtually impossible to measure accurately. If we could, we would have done - because the TSI for several years has declined, not increased. So has every other known form of solar flux. That's right. Nothing warms up by its own accord. In order to do so you have to apply extra heat from somewhere else; otherwise the heat will pass to a cooler region - that is, it will dissipate. Now - given the fact that the sun has not increased its warming for the past three or four years at least, and in fact there has been no significant warming of the surface or the atmosphere for over 16 years: where do you suppose this extra heat that is supposedly continuing to warm the deep oceans coming from? Do you suppose that water is colder than the Arctic ice, or warmer?
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Post by marchesarosa on Jan 25, 2013 20:54:46 GMT
Natural variation issuing ultimately from the sun via ocean currents ? When Trade winds strengthen they blow the clouds away and more sunshine falls on the equatorial ocean?
Just like the natural variation that enhanced the temperature rise slightly in the 1980s and 1990s.
If "natural variation" is today being claimed by the IPCC to be "counteracting" GHG global warming in order to account for the temperature stasis of the last 2 decades "natural variation" was EQUALLY CAPABLE of "enhancing" the temperature increase of the previous decades on which the "global warming" hypothesis is based.
TWO years rise in ocean temperature, visitor? My, my! Hasn't anyone explained to you the necessity of somewhat LONGER time scales before claiming "climate" is "changing" and claiming to know why ?
When you have found a satisfactory means of accurately measuring Ocean Heat Content, DO let us know!
Had it occurred to you that if global mean sea level is not increasing more than "normal" it means that thermal expansion is not increasing either - i.e no increase in ocean heat content. Do you still believe in Trenberth's "missing heat"?
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Post by marchesarosa on Mar 11, 2013 2:10:19 GMT
Not really, aubrey!
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Post by marchesarosa on Mar 11, 2013 2:13:13 GMT
The earth is burning up. Running a fever!!! Quick someone give it an aspirin!!! We should tax ourselves into oblivion because of this?
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aubrey
WH Member
Seeker for Truth and Penitence
Posts: 665
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Post by aubrey on Mar 11, 2013 17:06:46 GMT
So the last chart was bollocks, then. Or this one is. Or you're changing the parameters. You're getting to be as slithery as another member here (who doesn't post that much, for some reason).
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