Thou Shalt Not Steal (unless you do)

[Jade]

Priest outrages police by telling congregation: 'My advice to poor is to shoplift'

By Graham Smith (Mail Online)

'Highly irresponsible': Father Tim Jones has been criticised after advising his congregation to shoplift following his Nativity sermon

A clergyman has been criticised as 'highly irresponsible' after advising his congregation to shoplift following his Nativity sermon.
Father Tim Jones, 41, broke off from his traditional annual sermon yesterday to tell his flock that stealing from large chains is sometimes the best option for vulnerable people.

It is far better for people desperate during the recession to shoplift than turn to 'prostitution, mugging or burglary', he said.




This could have appeared under the "Moral Absolutes" thread I suppose

A priest telling us it is OK to steal?

Are there any circumstances under which stealing is OK?

[pippa]

no doubt the media will report what he said out of context.

life is desperate for some so good on him i say.

[Jade]

I would rather that he spoke of the Church's charity to those in need, that he made sure the poor were fed and warm through his management of his organisation's resources and goodwill before breaking a commandment

[jean]

I certainly agree that tesco can well afford to lose a propostion of their profits to shoplifting by the desperate.

But that's not what happens, is it?

In fact, they adjust their prices to take into account these losses - and so the desperate who have moral scruples about stealing pay extra, like the rest of us.

[jamesjosh]

But it is not the point. If there is poverty then that needs to be dealt with and it will not be dealt with by telling people to commit a crime.

From what I gather many people who do shop lift are nasty people who commit acts of violence against shop assistants who are not the most highly paid people.

What is the definition of being poor ?

The christian message is surely love your neighbour and you do not love your neighbour by stealing from them no matter how rich they are.
But then religion and priests have very little in common with the real message of christianity (IMO).

[lark descending]

Dec 22, 2009 14:59:02 GMT jamesjosh said:

But it is not the point. If there is poverty then that needs to be dealt with and it will not be dealt with by telling people to commit a crime.

From what I gather many people who do shop lift are nasty people who commit acts of violence against shop assistants who are not the most highly paid people.

What is the definition of being poor ?
The christian message is surely love your neighbour and you do not love your neighbour by stealing from them no matter how rich they are.
But then religion and priests have very little in common with the real message of christianity (IMO).

The widely accepted definition of poverty is having an income which is less than 60% of the national average (excluding the wealthiest members of society). On this measure, the proportion of the UK population defined as in poverty is roughly one in five.

And this roughly one in five figure has remained stubbornly high through both Conservative and Labour governments.

In fact, wind the clock back and the percentage of people in poverty has fallen by little over 10% since the first great UK poverty surveys were carried out at the end of the nineteenth century.


Well, that's a shocking surprise!

[pippa]

thou shalt not steal except if you are desperate. and not from friends or those that cant afford it.

Dec 22, 2009 14:59:02 GMT jamesjosh said:

From what I gather many people who do shop lift are nasty people who commit acts of violence against shop assistants who are not the most highly paid people.

takes all sorts James. i've watched little old ladies shoplifting in the supermarket. naturally i would not tell a soul.

What is the definition of being poor ?

sometimes it about having to make a decision whether to eat or have the heating on instead.

The christian message is surely love your neighbour and you do not love your neighbour by stealing from them no matter how rich they are.

but thieving from a large supermarket chain has nothing to do with "love thy neighbour". some shoplifters wouldn't dream of stealing from a neighbour or a friend or the corner shop but feel large stores are fair game if it helps an impoverished household income.

But then religion and priests have very little in common with the real message of christianity (IMO).

Jesus loved sinners and i would have thought if he were around today he might share that priest's message.
" it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven" or at least something to that effect.

as for supermarkets hiking up prices to incorporate losses for theft. well, any excuse to rip customers off all the more.

i've always thought there should be an alternative 10 commandments.

[lark descending]

It is probably easier to steal froma corner shop than it is from Tesbury, where CCTV, security officers and alarmed doors help to catch culprits. Send out the message that it is okay to steal from a hypermarket, and you sow the seeds of an idea that will escalate. The small supermarket down the road might be an easier option - and having got into the habit, theft becomes accepted and an okay thing to do provided you don't get caught.