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Post by Jade on Dec 28, 2009 8:56:01 GMT
Akmal Shaikh: 'Time seems to be running out' says daughter of death row Briton due to be executed within hours
By Daily Mail
The daughter of a Briton due to be executed tomorrow said he was not aware he could be shot within hours, but this was a 'good thing' because of his poor mental state.
Leilla Horsnell also told the BBC: 'I'd like to be hopeful, but time just seems to be running out.'
Akmal Shaikh, 53, from North London, is due to be put to death at 10.30am tomorrow (2.30am GMT) after being convicted of smuggling 4kg of heroin.
Two of his cousins have travelled to China to make a series of representations to the authorities in a last-minute mercy bid.
They also managed to meet Mr Shaikh and pass on messages from the rest of the family. They are the first family members to have face to face contact with him in two years.
Read more: LINK
Should people be rescued from the death penalty when found guilty abroad? And should our standards of justice (for example our treatment of people with mental health issues) be used to judge others judging our people? There may be questions over his guilt, but a court did find him guilty, so should we be interfering?
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aubrey
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Post by aubrey on Dec 28, 2009 10:13:17 GMT
Yes; Yes; Yes.
Chinese courts can sentence people to 10 years or more for writing something in a blog; I don't think they are courts in the way that we understand them.
War on drugs - pointless and barbaric.
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Post by Jade on Dec 28, 2009 11:33:57 GMT
But if we interfere and want our laws and judgements held to be the bar, couldn't another legal system challenge ours likewise?
I think it better to campaign and influence to get laws changed elsewhere showing that they are "wrong" and get countries to agree with us, and let everyone know that in some countries some behaviour that is considered "normal" here is wrong there and will be punished
then if you know that you can adjust your behaviour appropriately
Including not going there
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aubrey
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Post by aubrey on Dec 28, 2009 21:01:22 GMT
I'm way ahead of you there.
I think that there's a lot of things that are really bad about China, not just their fondness for executions. Their weird medicine - those bits involving animals anyway. A lot of pointless, thoughtless, cruelty to animals (which rubs off into their treatment of humans).
And we can't really complain about their treatment of heroin smugglers; our govt is not far off what the chinese spokesperson said, that 4 kgs of heroin is enough to kill 20,000 (or something ridiculous) people; because of our atitude to drugs in general, our bloke could hardly have said that that's bollocks, and that heroin on its own is pretty safe. What makes it dangerous is adulteration.
You're right, though. Influence.
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Post by admin on Dec 29, 2009 11:24:37 GMT
Akmal Shaikh, 53, a father-of-three, of London, had denied any wrongdoing and his family said he was mentally ill. The execution took place despite repeated calls from his family and the British government for clemency. Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he was "appalled and disappointed". But the Chinese Embassy said Mr Shaikh had no previous record of mental illness. Mr Shaikh's family made continued calls for leniency right up until the execution deadline, citing his mental state, saying that he suffered from bipolar disorder. His daughter Leilla Horsnell said: "I am shocked and disappointed that the execution went ahead with no regards to my dad's mental health problems, and I struggle to understand how this is justice."very sad for his family. but surely not 'appalling and disappointing' for the British Government - does the PM know nothing of the Chinese habits when it comes to criminals? was he born yesterday? . if mental health problems were an excuse for drug related crime in the UK, our prisons would be all but empty. you might hope, or even expect, to get a way with a bipolar defence for a spot of shoplifting - but drug smuggling?
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Post by jean on Dec 29, 2009 14:34:48 GMT
if mental health problems were an excuse for drug related crime in the UK, our prisons would be all but empty. The argument here was not that he used drugs because he was mentally ill, or that he dealt drugs to pay for a habit, or that he was deranged because of drug use. It is that his mental condition was such that he was duped by drug dealers into believing that he could save the world by means of a very bad pop song he'd written. It would take a different kind of disorder than bipolar for that story to be convincing, though. I don't think we know enough to judge what his mental state was.
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Post by admin on Dec 29, 2009 14:44:02 GMT
It is that his mental condition was such that he was duped by drug dealers into believing that he could save the world by means of a very bad pop song he'd written. yes, and if this type of defence were permitted in the uk, our prisons could be virtually empty. i agree, we do not know the ins and outs. but being manic depressive/bipolar is not a valid defence, imo.
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pippa
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Post by pippa on Dec 29, 2009 15:32:51 GMT
i agree with what you say Aubrey, Tienneman square is a case in point and how disgusting and barbaric was that. please do forgive my role as devil's advocate, but wouldn't your comment about judging a nation by the way it treats its animals, be considered racist and therefore unpc?
personally i do not think the death penalty can ever be justified or incorporated into any county's legal system. and i feel it is important that the world should speak out about any country that violates human rights.
however should the UK not be mindful of its own hypocrisy. just one case in point is the lockerby affair. Al Megrahi's was subsequently found guilty and incarcerated, yet there appears to be some kind of coverup at the highest levels. i wonder if we will ever know the truth. another case which involves whole countries. we are responsible for the death thousands of innocent civilians, of ruining the infrastructure of a whole country, destroying its people's homes, their precious artifacs and ancient antiquities. we chose to bomb Iraq on the basis of a lie. the excuse of wmd was not true. we also bombed Afghanistan to smitherines, again innocents slaughtered when the USA's truck was with Al Quaida.
and yes, it is very sad to hear of Akmal Shaikh's execution. of course we only get to hear a snippet of his case but one thing really puzzles me about his circumstances. surely his family would have been aware of his vulnerability in being in foreign territory with bipolar. was he traveling alone? who was around to care whether he was taking his medication and if he wasn't on medication who was with him at the time to care for his welbeing. i know people can function perfectly well with bi-polar but quite often they might quit taking their medication and if not on medication find it difficult to mange the highs and the troughs - where was his backup?
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Post by admin on Dec 29, 2009 15:37:53 GMT
and yes, it is very sad to hear of Akmal Shaikh's execution. of course we only get to hear a snippet of his case but one thing really puzzles me about his circumstances. surely his family would have been aware of his vulnerability in being in foreign territory with bipolar. was he traveling alone? who was around to care whether he was taking his medication and if he wasn't on medication who was with him at the time to care for his welbeing. i know people can function perfectly well with bi-polar but quite often they might quit taking their medication and if not on medication find it difficult to mange the highs and the troughs - where was his backup? quite. i had a bipolar parent. and while i have a lot of sympathy for their loss, those responsible for his home care (family) and medical care (doctor) would do well to explain why this man was in China with a load of drugs.
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Post by lark descending on Dec 29, 2009 16:06:58 GMT
Did he know he was carrying heroin, or was he so deranged that he thought the packets were copies of his pop song or something equally bizarre?
That is surely the only question relevant to his guilt.
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Post by admin on Dec 29, 2009 16:25:57 GMT
Did he know he was carrying heroin no one will ever know or was he so deranged that he thought the packets were copies of his pop song or something equally bizarre? if he was that deranged his family would never have allowed him to travel without responsible supervision, and any GP worthy of a £100,000+ NHS salary will have been keeping a keen eye on his medication and have been making an assessment as to whether he was actually taking it (along with his family). there is no single question that can be asked as to his guilt or innocence or incapacity.
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Post by marchesarosa on Dec 29, 2009 18:12:13 GMT
It's all part of life's rich tapestry. We should be celebrating this diversity not condemning it.
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aubrey
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Post by aubrey on Dec 29, 2009 19:40:40 GMT
I see what you mean, and I know that not all chinese are like that; but the culture seems to be like that, and it's bad. (There is film of youtube of someone cooking and eating a live fish. I really don't understand the mentality of someone who would think something like that admirable.
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Post by lark descending on Dec 29, 2009 20:43:41 GMT
<there is no single question that can be asked as to his guilt or innocence or incapacity.>
The question of whether he did or did not know what he was carrying is crucial when deciding his capacity, surely - though there are many factors to be considered in the process of answering it.
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Post by jean on Dec 29, 2009 21:02:14 GMT
...There is film of youtube of someone cooking and eating a live fish. .. It can't still be alive by the time you've cooked it, can it? And we (well, some of us) plunge live lobsters into boiling water, don't we?
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