aubrey
WH Member
Seeker for Truth and Penitence
Posts: 665
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Post by aubrey on Mar 2, 2010 8:56:32 GMT
I do think they're entitled, Marchesa. Most council housing has been sold off (and deliberately not been replaced), and regular housing is too expensive. This is all considered a good thing; probably it would be even better if we could find a way of forcing young women with babies into hostels, or into the tunnels underneath the roundabout in front of Waterloo station. Then we could reduce taxes even more.
There is an attempt now to blame the financial problems we are having on people on benefits. It is very muchg like that old song - rich what get the pleasure, the poor what get the blame - you'd think they would be embarrassed, if only for the triteness and cliche of the response - but no, lets get the single mothers, etc. Pathetic.
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Post by Jade on Mar 2, 2010 9:23:06 GMT
Marchesarosa! I would hope I have instilled enough pride and hope and ambition into The Child that she wants far far more than such a life offers.
But if she wanted a child, I would not insist she chains herself to the man who fathers it. I would hope that she would be able to support herself, and if not I would support her rather than relying on the taxpayers - but then again, not everyone is in my lucky position, no?
(and there is a LOT of things I would cut in public expenditure before the pitance offered to single parents)
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Post by sweetjessicajane on Mar 2, 2010 12:15:06 GMT
One of this government's aims is to reduce child poverty. As I see it children live in poverty because either something happens to the family unit and the family slips into poverty or a child is born into poverty.
On this thread people have spoken about the mothers, the fathers and the benefits, but what about the child? Is it fair on the child to be born into poverty?
There seems to be lots of talk about the rights of a woman to have a child, but who speaks for the rights of the child?
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Post by Jade on Mar 2, 2010 13:05:32 GMT
Are you suggesting SJJ that poor women should be required to abort?
the alternative would be to increase single parent benefits to a level that would exced all understood defnitions of poverty
Further than I might go, but a brave viewpoint.
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Post by sweetjessicajane on Mar 2, 2010 13:57:10 GMT
I have reread the article, incase I had misunderstood the discussion.
What I suggested in my previous posts is that women don't get pregnant in the first place.
It is my understanding of the article that 25% of women are chosing to become single parents, I am saying they should think about what is best for the child before that child is conceived.
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Post by Jade on Mar 2, 2010 15:04:29 GMT
aaah right
actually that is precisely what I think they are doing. They are making a life choice to have the (wanted) alone rather than with the father of the baby, and to allow taxpayers to pay for them to do so.
Denying poor women the chance ofa child is not a policy that has ever gained any traction - although it certainly has been tried!
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Post by jamesjosh on Mar 3, 2010 15:58:35 GMT
I think this is difficult. Should a person (male or female) bring a child into the world if they cannot financially look after the child without help from the state. On other hand we benefit by women giving birth, - paying for our pension, more workers.
Does that then turn make women answerable to the state for how they bring up their child which she has carried for nine months, gone through the agonies of childbirth then spend most of her life worrying about the child for the rest of life ?
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Post by jamesjosh on Mar 3, 2010 16:01:44 GMT
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8546713.stmAn example of an older man trying to guide young men And Capello has warned his players to keep control of their personal lives so that there are no distractions ahead of the World Cup.
"The private life is a big problem for some players, but also brings big problems for the clubs and for me," he added.
"Players have to be an example to the children, for all the fans.
"For that reason, they have to stay careful at all times and sacrifice something in their lives.
"It will be really important in this last period to be careful in their own lives. I ask them to take no chances."
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Post by jamesjosh on Mar 3, 2010 16:19:35 GMT
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8546955.stmAnd another reason why footballers need good advice and strong words to keep them on the straight and narrow. Of course it is only alleged. A Manchester City footballer is under investigation over allegations that he head butted a Manchester United fan in a nightclub. Michael Johnson was accused of assaulting the fan, who was singing Manchester United songs at 42nd Street in Manchester city centre in December. Johnson, 22, was later arrested on suspicion of assault, causing actual bodily harm
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Post by Jade on Mar 4, 2010 8:55:05 GMT
JJ thank you for that - the Capello quote - it is precisely that behaviour I had in mind when asking where the older men were that should show the younger men how to go about things
and what a lone voice he is!
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aubrey
WH Member
Seeker for Truth and Penitence
Posts: 665
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Post by aubrey on Mar 4, 2010 9:26:07 GMT
Mark Smith:
Many have found pleasures in curvaceous women Their undulating curves upper and lower But what I really need is a glass of cold water
Another time he said, A glass of cold water and a walk around the garden.
(Then again, I'm not sure that he sticks to it himself.)
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Post by sweetjessicajane on Mar 5, 2010 11:34:09 GMT
Reference role models for young boys/men.
Shouldn't role models be closer to home rather than footballers/actors/famous person?
If a young boy is growing up in a female led single parent household and the father: for whatever reason: is not taking an active role in the child's up bringing, what male role models does that child have ?
Thinking of my own son, if my husband was not present, who would he have as a role model? At nursery there were not male carers, at primary school very few male teachers. None of his grandfathers or uncles live locally, there are however other children's fathers near by. In the normal course of events my son would come into contact with very few males.
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Post by Jade on Mar 5, 2010 12:14:11 GMT
Hi SJJ
I was talking to a guy recently who owns a factory in the east of england and we were dicussing this very thing. He was lamenting the demise of the "traditional male jobs" in large companies as this was where a lot of lads used to grow up emotionally, morally and socially. the older men would not only train apprentices in how to do stuff with metal but also would be there to give advice, show proper scorn for bad behaviour, give "rules of thumb" for how to live your life etc etc
He was very clear about how those roles are necessary in a boys life, because mums can only go so far with boys, and boys need to learn social norms away from the apron strings.
Where do boys learn this stuff nowadays? Especially if respect for older men is not automatic, and thy have limited opportunities to learn it.
Sometimes kids must look outside the parents to see what is "normal" and make up their own minds how to behave.
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Post by jamesjosh on Mar 5, 2010 15:23:05 GMT
But surely there is no such thing as normal today. We shouldn't talking about a man or woman's job - that kind of segration got us into trouble in the first place.
Some women would say that as they are law-abiding, respectful and hardworking they are good "role models" for their children.
To me the role model issue smells to much about the blame culture. "I committed a crime because my father/footballers etc was/were bad role models".
Perhaps if the people who go on about role models (journalists,MPs) tried to be good models themselves we would be getting somewhere.
On that matter a good role model would a parent who did not buy a newspaper and voted for anyone but the two main parties.
Or not have a television. TV is supposed to be so infuential, perhaps script writers should reflect how society should behave rather than how some people actually behave. Let us have soap operas with good male and female role models.
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Post by marchesarosa on Mar 6, 2010 11:48:17 GMT
This sounds like a first draft of a piece of sociological research that was all the rage when I was a lass. Is the tax-payer actually PAYING you for this statement of the bleedin' obvious, jade? And are you including all our "comments" in your "findings".
Sorry, folks, but I cannot rid myself of the suspicion that this scion of PCdom is simply milking the board for her own pecuniary advantage.
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