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Post by lark descending on Jan 6, 2010 7:34:18 GMT
Nearly 2,500 ex-servicemen are in prison in England and Wales, official figures show for the first time.
Maria Eagle, justice minister, told MPs that three per cent of the prison population in England and Wales - 2,430 offenders - are former servicemen. The news comes amid fears that the number could rise as troops quit the forces with post-traumatic stress after serving in Iraq or Afghanistan and then find themselves getting into trouble with the police.
Maria Eagle, a justice minister, told MPs that three per cent - nearly 2,500 prisoners - had served in the armed forces. The count of the prison population - which was carried out in November - is the first time ever that the Government has attempted to understand how many former members of the armed forces are in jail.
Officials were able to complete the count by matching all the 81,000 prisoners aged over-18 in England and Wales with a database of more than one million veterans held by the Ministry of Defence.
Miss Eagle said: “We are providing new training for prison staff covering best practice in advice and support for veterans and information on accessing specialist health treatments, financial help and help finding a job.”
Ministers are expected to unveil plans over the next few days to ensure the new database, which goes as far back as the 1970s, is as complete as possible.
Whitehall sources said further work would also be carried out on length of service, rank and offence type. The count will be repeated on a regular basis to find out whether the problem is getting worse.
Ministry of Justice officials are hoping that the new information will allow new treatment programmes to be drawn up tailored to the specific needs of former servicemen in prison.
story continues
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Post by Jade on Jan 6, 2010 12:13:53 GMT
We really do fail the men and women who soldier for us, don't we?
Once we turn them into the machines we need we let them loose on society ill equipped and badly prepared. They cost us sod all when they are soldiers, so we should support them more until they have established their new life
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Post by sinistral on Jan 6, 2010 13:41:13 GMT
We really do fail the men and women who soldier for us, don't we? Once we turn them into the machines we need we let them loose on society ill equipped and badly prepared. They cost us sod all when they are soldiers, so we should support them more until they have established their new life Hear hear! |
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pippa
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Post by pippa on Jan 6, 2010 14:16:06 GMT
its also the military who really fail them. makes one think that all they were ever used for was cannon fodder.
i live near a huge military base so lots of squaddies around. my daughters friend's boyfriend, only a teenager, experienced all the horror of war. he came home for a spell and was having nightmares. couldn't face going back to the front line and went awol . for that he was sent to prison. his vulnerable mental state wasn't considered at all.
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Post by Jade on Jan 7, 2010 13:08:27 GMT
o pippa how bloody awful.
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pippa
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Post by pippa on Jan 7, 2010 15:51:19 GMT
yep, life's a bitch, Jade, innit?
what gets me is that it's all supposed to work. and it does, on paper, of course. files all tidily and nicely closed with those working the machine of the system slapping each other and themselves (naturally), on the back in their congratulatory way for completing a good job, all nicely sewn up, done and dusted. but they leave a wake of pain in their trail. in reality who actually gets a fair deal? it's the little guy out here in the world that cops it and it happens all the time just like that young woman with her beating on the 5 go mad thread. those that don't know how the system is supposed to work have no idea how to begin defending themselves or how to fight back or even that they have the right to. just ordinary folk.
and here i am sounding off, so maudlin again but these things are happening, everywhere, all the time. and then again life can be sweet, so just keep laughing.
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Post by arealfarmer on Jan 8, 2010 16:28:49 GMT
We really do fail the men and women who soldier for us, don't we? Once we turn them into the machines we need we let them loose on society ill equipped and badly prepared. They cost us sod all when they are soldiers, so we should support them more until they have established their new life Er .......Well yes we probably do , but ....but the people I knew who went into the army would have ended up in prison if they hadn't joined up and in one case did afterwards anyway , so I think its a case of - rubbish in , rubbish out . |
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Post by admin on Jan 8, 2010 17:27:08 GMT
Er .......Well yes we probably do , but ....but the people I knew who went into the army would have ended up in prison if they hadn't joined up and in one case did afterwards anyway , so I think its a case of - rubbish in , rubbish out .  ouch! - Very harsh - but ..... |
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Post by sinistral on Jan 8, 2010 18:49:11 GMT
Er .......Well yes we probably do , but ....but the people I knew who went into the army would have ended up in prison if they hadn't joined up and in one case did afterwards anyway , so I think its a case of - rubbish in , rubbish out . What a charming sentiment. Happily,coming from a garrison town,I can assure anyone reading the above that the vast majority of those in the armed forces are good,decent people doing a shitty job only to be rewarded with comments like that. Incidentally ARF.......does your low opinion of service personnel extend back a few decades? You know.....to my Father's generation......the "rubbish" who fought so that you could have free speech. |
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Post by marchesarosa on Jan 8, 2010 19:04:06 GMT
Here’s one who didn’t get the chance to go to prison, farmer.  Lance Cpl David Kirkness, of the 3rd Battalion The Rifles |
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Post by admin on Jan 8, 2010 19:14:11 GMT
coming from a garrison town..... is why i didn't delete ARF's post out of hand. most trouble in pubs here is army related. Incidentally ARF.......does your low opinion of service personnel extend back a few decades? You know.....to my Father's generation......the "rubbish" who fought so that you could have free speech. i hope not sinistral. but squaddies are not necessarily as well educated now as they once were .... edit to add: that was not really what i meant to say - what i mean to say is that they may not have as much choice - today there isn't as much industry/ apprenticeships etc to employ young men who may not have been inclined or encouraged by their parents to strive hard at school. |
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Post by arealfarmer on Jan 8, 2010 20:23:06 GMT
I was aware that my comments would be taken badly by some .Why would you delete it Bets ? I am entiled to voice an opinion am I not ? I repeat the people I knew that went into the army were not particularly smart (put kindly ) or particularly nice charactors . One raped and tried to kill a girl in Chelt . Sad but true .
And Sin - coming from a garrison town you presumably know full well how charming a town full of drunk squadies can be ? An Army in time of world war is a different one to a peace time Army , but presumably there were as many if not more dodgy charactors then as now .
The assumption that the prisons are full of ex-service personel because of their service experiences is just that - an assumption . My suggestion that they were set on a path to prison before joining up is at least as valid .
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Post by sinistral on Jan 8, 2010 22:43:27 GMT
I was aware that my comments would be taken badly by some .Why would you delete it Bets ? I am entiled to voice an opinion am I not ? I repeat the people I knew that went into the army were not particularly smart (put kindly ) or particularly nice charactors . One raped and tried to kill a girl in Chelt . Sad but true . And Sin - coming from a garrison town you presumably know full well how charming a town full of drunk squadies can be ? An Army in time of world war is a different one to a peace time Army , but presumably there were as many if not more dodgy charactors then as now . The assumption that the prisons are full of ex-service personel because of their service experiences is just that - an assumption . My suggestion that they were set on a path to prison before joining up is at least as valid . Yes....I know how charming a town full of drunk squaddies can be...... About as charming as a town full of drunk civvies. Actually that isn't strictly true. I could walk through the streets of garrison Aldershot and feel a damn sight safer than walking through the streets of civilian Bristol. Still I'm obliged to you ARF,because in future,every time I see a serviceman's body being brought home I shall think "rubbish in,rubbish out" |
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Post by sinistral on Jan 8, 2010 22:52:03 GMT
And just an extra bit of info on David Kirkness,whose photo Marchesa kindly posted.
He,along with a comrade,sacrificed his life to stop an attack on a crowded marketplace.
To me that is the action of a hero though others,of course,might think differently.
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Post by lark descending on Jan 9, 2010 6:10:23 GMT
I lived and worked near Aldershot in the 1970s and the "squaddies" had a bad repution for drunken violence, deserved or not I don't know. In those days of fuller unemployment the army was probably scratching around a bit more than it needs to now, but I think it is true that service life appeals to a certain type of young man, perhaps without a stable home background, who needs to channel his aggression and thrives on the comradeship, discipline and physical challenges. Take those away prematurely and you have a recipe for disaster.
I'm certainly not saying that the majority of recruits are like that - but the majority of soldiers don't end up in jail, either.
The son of a work acquaintance, in his late 20s and with a steady job with good career prospects, joined the Royal Marines last year and is apparently loving it. She is rather at a loss to understand the attraction.
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ouch! - Very harsh - but .....
