Spying on home-educating parents

[jean]

I tend to think that anyone who educates their children at home must be mad, but this may worry some:

"Hi everyone!

There's some frighteningly powerful legislation being rushed through at the moment which will give Local Authorities a right of access to family homes, and to interview children on their own - for up to 4 hours! This is without any suspicion of wrong doing, and is way beyond the powers of the police and social services.

Please don't be fooled by the fact that it appears to only be about home education, as it will set an incredibly dangerous precedent with huge consequences for all families. Ofsted has called for home educating parents to be CRB checked to look after their own children, and given that most serious case reviews involve children under 5yrs, than it will clearly be extended to all parents before long. The bill effectively places the state as routinely having primary responsibility for children, rather than their parents. The date of the second reading in Parliament is January 11th, and there's every likelihood that this will be one of the Bills that will just go through as a deal between the parties once the next election is called.

We need to send a really urgent message that there are huge objections to the civil rights implications of this. There is an on-line petition...Please help us overcome the massive delay in organising opposition over xmas and the New Year by letting as many people as possible know about this.

Here's some useful links :-

www.home-education.biz/news/22/60/AHEd-demands-rethink-of-home-education-policy/ (includes links to actual Bill etc)

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/dec/17/nanny-state-child-protection-crb-checks

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QjdcdG4mP4 (just for fun!)

www.newsfromnowhere.org.uk/XmasPoem.pdf & www.newsfromnowhere.org.uk/NewYearPoem.pdf (print & display or why not email a as e-greetings cards?)

and last, but certainly not least, the petition itself :-

petitions.number10.gov.uk/Home-ed-families/ "

[admin]

i signed it.

[Jade]

If you want to opt out of the mainstream of our society in order that your girls may have a very different understanding of our world than is the norm for girls in school - if you want to keep them entirely separate and ignorant, if you want them to have a particular religion that would not stand up to playground scrutiny, if your want your abuse of them never to be discovered, and for them to think it normal, then the very best way to do this is to forbid them a school and to take utter control of everything they experience.

If to make this abuse less impossible to detect you have a process of inspection that is the minimum for anyone that looks after children other than their own, that is very light touch in most cases but allows for more rigour if there are concerns, then I am all for it.

It is not the process that is the problem, it will be in the quality of its application.

I know there are many that hate the idea of the State involving itself in family life, but when it comes to intervening in the possible abuse of children I think we should think about it harder.

[marchesarosa]

You see, yet another example of Daze's holier than thou mindset. Simply by the fact of not sharing HER views on state education you are automatically placing yourself in the camp of potential child abusers.

Daze, you must really stop this throwing out of wild accusations against those who merely disagree with your own PC world-view.

At the drop of a hat you recently depicted me as a member of a torch-bearing, blind and stupid nazi mob because I objected to public funding of muslim education.

Calm down. You made yourself look stupid then and now you have done it again now.

I sincerely hope people with your mindset are not consuming too much of MY taxes but I fear that hope is bound to be dashed.

[pippa]

some might say the state's education system is an abuse as indeed it systematically fails millions of children who have the right to good education.

not only do many schools harbour a culture of bullying, quite the opposite to what they profess, but are also woefully inadequate in providing an all round education to very many children. how many go through the system and leave barely able to read and write, let alone have little knowledge of the world around them? how many slip through the net when it comes to detecting learning difficulties? our prisons of full of adults with learning difficulties that were not addressed while at school - those people end up being failures and marginalised and their schooling should bear a responsibility. so many have a BAD experience of their school years. bums on seats and crowd control is often the modus operandi at secondary school.

i'll sign that petition.

[marchesarosa]

I've signed it too, pippa, and bets!

[sinistral]

Marchesa.....

At this time of year I think we really ought to be charitable and assume that someone jogged Jade's elbow when she was topping up her glass.

Jade....if that wasn't the case I think you should provide some stats to back up your opinions.

What is the difference,if any,in the proportion of girls receiving home education,as opposed to boys?
How many home educated children are physically or sexually abused?
How many state educated children are physically or sexually abused?
How many home educated Muslim girls are forced into arranged marriages?
How many state educated Muslim girls are forced into arranged marriages?

Jade....you've made some very nasty allegations about people daring to choose a different option for educating their children......

Time to back them up.

[admin]

actually, i thought Jade made a good point.

i wonder what proportion of officially home educated children come from families where an allegiance to an invisible friend plays an important role, or where not wanting female children to see how the other half lives....?

she does have a point.

[jean]

Dec 31, 2009 17:31:03 GMT marchesarosa said:

You see, yet another example of Daze's holier than thou mindset...

I can't quite see that, marchesa.

If Muslim parents want to educate their children outside the mainstream of British society whether at home or in special Muslim schools, you're the first to object.

[sinistral]

But Jean.....Jade isn't talking only about Muslims is she?
She is making completely unsubstantiated comments about anyone who dares to cross the state and educate their own children in their own home.

[sinistral]

Dec 31, 2009 20:37:15 GMT admin said:

actually, i thought Jade made a good point.

i wonder what proportion of officially home educated children come from families where an allegiance to an invisible friend plays an important role, or where not wanting female children to see how the other half lives....?

she does have a point.

Well surely don't Muslim schools(which the multiculturalists tell us are so necessary) keep male and female pupils apart?
That little game goes on with the state smiling upon it.

[admin]

Dec 31, 2009 21:09:49 GMT sinistral said:

But Jean.....Jade isn't talking only about Muslims is she?
She is making completely unsubstantiated comments about anyone who dares to cross the state and educate their own children in their own home.

i thought she was making a valid general point to show another aspect.
it was constructive.

surely considering the pros and cons will be the only sensible way to iron out the difficulties with this (to my mind) overbearing legislation.

[lark descending]

If someone never registers their child for school and declares that they will "home educate" there is, so far as I can tell, no mechanism to ensure that those children are getting any schooling.

I know of a woman (friend of a friend) who promised her eldest child that he would not go to the local comprehensive, where he would be mixing with children who had bullied him before. He failed to get a place anywhere else, so she kept him at home in the fond belief that the education authority would give in and offer him a place at a more favoured school.

It never happened, and the mother kept the younger child at home teaching them very little. After a few years she gave in and allowed the younger one to go to the local school but the elder one remained at home until 16, when he was old enough to go to the 6th form college. I am told that he he is now in a basic skills group.

This should never have been allowed to happen, though I'm not entirely sure what the current scheme would achieve in this respect.

[sinistral]

That was interesting,Lark.
You see the thing that worries me is that it will be the same authorities who already can't provide a safe,bully-free environment in which to educate children that will now be allowed to poke their noses into private homes,without any justification.

In effect this proposed legislation is simply extending the premise that all adults are neglectful parents or potential abusers until proven otherwise.

Very creepy....very dangerous.

[pippa]

i also find it sinister and scarey especially as its one that is being taken seriously - are they really thinking of doing that?

"If you want to opt out of the mainstream of our society in order that your girls may have a very different understanding of our world than is the norm for girls in school "

"girls", what about boys? i cant see what's wrong in having a different understandings of our world in any case - it would be a horror to imagine we all came out of the same mold. is that really the future? and surely you are not advocating that, being a non absolutist, Jade?

all mainstream education does is offer a 'one size fits all' to our kids. home education is not the only alternative to mainstream. there are schools that offer different approach based learning that is very different to mainstream education as they recognise that a 'one size fits all' approach does not work, that's why we have so many failing schools.

education should be child centred, more in tune with child psychology and have a clearer understanding of the needs of individual children that mainstream schooling cannot financially afford within a sea of anonimity that is their norm. unfortunately many parents cannot afford education that is more suited to the child or perhaps there is not the choice of schools available where they live and therefore feel their children stand a better chance in life if they are home educated. many parents can and do offer so much more than what mainstream does in terms of education and outlook.

Jades post makes it sound as though home educated children are isolated from society. i don't believe that's true whereas a child that is bullied within the mainstream system and the situation inadequately or not addressed can be totally isolated and alone, such feelings at a tender age causes damage..

government and schools fail our kid on different levels. classrooms for the very young that focus on reading writing and arithmetic instead of learning through play start children off the wrong foot which is often the root cause of learning difficulties that plague them throughout life. young children develop differently at different times and education should be focused on that but mainstream schools, being stretch financially and of resources cannot afford and are unable to focus on the individual, especially where you have classes with a large number of children.