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Post by sweetjessicajane on Sept 6, 2014 5:01:20 GMT
In this country we believe innocent until proven guilty - but to be accused of racism is to be guilty until you can prove yourself innocent (if you can). e.g. to not get a job because the interviewer was racist - how do you get into someone's mind to prove/disprove an accusation like that? 'Innocent until proved guilty' applies only to Law Courts considering crimes that have been committed. It is necessary also, that when a crime is committed anyone suspected of that crime must be treated as innocent by institutions such as the press, otherwise any consequent trial may be compromised. (There are recorded gross flagrations of this rule)(The law has also been somewhat muddied and confused by the McPherson definitions of racism tha include incidents that are not a crime, and by a racist incident being defined by any person that considers that incident racist - surely the Catch 22 of the PC world) Now to be a 'racist' is in itself not a crime (although acts that define the racist are generally criminal acts) - a person cannot be charged with racism, but only acts that are recorded in law as racist To call someone a racist may be considered libellous and there are cases where damages have been awarded for such accusations. Any organ , such as a newspaper of an internet Forum board that carries such an accusation is also liable to libel claims, which is why Proboards will generally act when such accusations are reported Also are white people the only race capable of being raciest? Don't other races ever act in a racist way? Not in the eyes of the Law, although sometimes the application of the Law may lend that impression So from your earlier post - Could someone make this a racist crime merely by saying it's a racist crime?
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Post by cleefarqhuar on Sept 6, 2014 8:05:00 GMT
by a racist incident being defined by any person that considers that incident racistSo from your earlier post - Could someone make this a racist crime merely by saying it's a racist crime? Apparently not It is a silly definition that common sense tels us has no force in law He is a CPS commentary on McPherson's witterings:
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Post by PC World on Sept 6, 2014 16:30:24 GMT
But the first line in Post 1 clearly states: "those men of Pakistani origin that indulged in the rape of hundreds English juveniles are to blame" WHO ARE WE TO BELIEVE? (S'funny how the police are SUDDENLY all concerned about looking racist when there are difficult cases that need investigating.)
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Post by sweetjessicajane on Sept 8, 2014 11:55:35 GMT
But the first line in Post 1 clearly states: "those men of Pakistani origin that indulged in the rape of hundreds English juveniles are to blame" WHO ARE WE TO BELIEVE? (S'funny how the police are SUDDENLY all concerned about looking racist when there are difficult cases that need investigating.) From some of the information posted here, the implication is that just because the victims and perpetrators were of different races don't make the crime a racist one. In some reports it mentions victims from the Muslin community, however the shame of being a victim prevents many coming forward. It seems there is a greater shame in being a victim than being a perpetrator.
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Post by marchesarosa on Sept 11, 2014 17:19:33 GMT
The Rotherham group of Groomers are all Pakistani and the girls are not. This is what makes the behaviour racist.
It doesn't matter if OTHER Pakistanis have also targeted girls from their own community. The current crop are not being prosecuted for that.
The fact that groomers and abusers come in all ethnicities is also irrelevant. The Rotherham case has the added element of trans-ethnic targeting and grooming. Those who try to deny this are merely militantly PC and can safely be ignored.
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Post by jean on Sept 11, 2014 22:00:17 GMT
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Post by Jonjel on Sept 12, 2014 9:06:19 GMT
Jean.
Does anyone know the actual or even approximate numbers of white girls that were abused in Rotherham and the numbers of Pakistani girls? From what I have read I had assumed that the overwhelming proportion were white.
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Post by Cornish Patsy on Sept 13, 2014 11:25:53 GMT
I do not understand why it is so important to label these rapists as racist. Maybe they are. There's a lot of it about. Surely the point is that these men targeted vulnerable young girls. The men probably didn't care about their ethnicity. Maybe all it illustrates is that young asian girls are not allowed out late at night smoking outside the chip shop (or whatever it is that the victims did) and so are not target-able like their white counterparts. All these men are probably sexist tho'
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Post by allman on Sept 14, 2014 7:43:08 GMT
I do not understand why it is so important to label these rapists as racist. Maybe they are. There's a lot of it about. Surely the point is that these men targeted vulnerable young girls. The men probably didn't care about their ethnicity. Maybe all it illustrates is that young asian girls are not allowed out late at night smoking outside the chip shop (or whatever it is that the victims did) and so are not target-able like their white counterparts. All these men are probably sexist tho' Whatever they are they've ruined our country
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Post by marchesa-rosa on Sept 14, 2014 16:36:03 GMT
It's not a matter of what I "like" to believe, jean. It is a fact.
Since Pakistani girls are not in care with no-one to protect them from their "life-style choice" whatever the facts of THEIR abuse they are not the same as the trafficking and prostitution imposed on the "vulnerable" white girls. The indifference of the authorities to the behaviour of the Pakistani abusers is reflected in your own inability to call a spade a spade, jean
I have no doubt a Pakistani man may prey on a Pakistani girl given the opportunity but I would deny that there is the equivalent of the organised gangs of traffickers, rapers and abusers that formed around the white girls in various towns around the country most of which are still to get to court. You will get tired of hearing about them before it is through, jean! Of course there are abusers everywhere but the abuse organised by these Pakistanis for the benefit of their ethnic pals is different because of their ethnicity and that of their victims.. Those who cannot see it are too politically correct I'm afraid.
Incidentally, the first post I ever wr
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Post by marchesarosa on Sept 14, 2014 16:42:34 GMT
Incidentally, the first post I ever wrote was about a Scottish schoolgirl, Louise Campbell, who was groomed at the school gates by a Pakistani, Sajad Rana, who plied her with gifts etc and later became her husband. Such behaviour is pretty stereotypical amongst Pakistani men in white communities, it seems. When the marriage failed the custody of the children was contested and formed the subject matter of the Radio 4 programme,"Molly to Misbah".
To close your eyes to this stereotypical grooming make you as culpable, jean, as the authorities who closed their eyes to it for decades. But anything to preserve the illusion of a happy, multicultural society, I suppose.
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Post by Chef Boycott on Sept 14, 2014 17:01:39 GMT
The indifference of the authorities to the behaviour of the Pakistani abusers is reflected in... ...the exact same indifference of the police when The Yorkshire Ripper was at large. It is not about who the perpetrators are it's about the who the victims are. In both these cases the victims weren't worth bothering about because they were just not important. Prostitutes? Young girls from care? Who gives a hoot about them? Not the police. Not in Yorkshire anyway. Eh,eh?
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Post by marchesarosa on Sept 14, 2014 17:37:35 GMT
You wait for all the cases in southern England that have not yet come to court where the same indifference from the authorities to Pakistani/muslim abusers has applied! It just happens that the cases in Northern England have been the first to hit the headlines. There will be many more, mark my words! This sort of "grooming" is endemic amongst muslims in western societies. There will be so many more that you will be tired of hearing about them, guest, and I expect you will succumb to "indignation fatigue" eventually. (That was a joke, BTW) Are you capable of indignation - either for the indifference of the authorities, the plight of the girls or the culturally sanctioned racist grooming of the perps? I doubt it.
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Hamperpamperinthecamper
Guest
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Post by Hamperpamperinthecamper on Sept 14, 2014 18:03:57 GMT
You wait for all the cases in southern England that have not yet come to court where the same indifference from the authorities to Pakistani/muslim abusers has applied! It just happens that the cases in Northern England have been the first to hit the headlines. There will be many more, mark my words! This sort of "grooming" is endemic amongst muslims in western societies. There will be so many more that you will be tired of hearing about them, guest, and I expect you will succumb to "indignation fatigue" eventually. (That was a joke, BTW) Are you capable of indignation - either for the indifference of the authorities, the plight of the girls or the culturally sanctioned racist grooming of the perps? I doubt it. Already answered all your "points". Go back and read properly. Your "joke" was rubbish.Don't give up the day job. Are you capable of anything other than hate? I doubt it.(if you don't like that sort of remark then I suggest you stop doing it to others!)
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Post by whambamthankyoumam on Sept 15, 2014 10:07:16 GMT
The police saying "we did nothing because we were worried about looking racist" makes slightly better reading than "we did nothing because it would have involved hard work and we are lazy, incompetent and don't care much about vulnerable women".
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